Mumbai Terror Attack
I guess this is being equated to Indian version of 9/11. My heart goes to all the people in those hotels right now. I hope they can all come out safe.
Meanwhile, move along people Stay strong and do-not-over-react. Kindly do not react to this the way US reacted to 9/11.
Do not think you are unsafe anymore ? More people in India die because of faulty TV sets than terror attacks.
Have the terrorists won ? They will if we react the way US has and give up our freedoms and our normal way of life.
In tough economic and global times like this, we will win only if we move on with our lives and keep this behind. This is how we fight terror, not overreacting to this, not invading countries and giving up our freedom. Bad enough the security guards check my car and bags each time I enter a mall or hotel here in Bangalore, I do not want to give up any more of my freedom.
and someone please shut up Barkha Dutt of NDTV. She is causing more damage to the country by FUD than the terrorists themselves.
Re: Reacting like the US
With all due respect, having lived in the US through 9/11, hindsight is 20/20 and given the gravity of what happened in the US, it’s hard to blame those who lived in NYC and surrounding areas not be a bit shell shocked at what they saw and to this day “react the way the US has.” I would say the vast majority of Americans did move on, but our leaders took advantage of our fears and used that to develop a perception that Americans are fearful, which is a subject of debate. Yes, some of our rights have been challenged and sidelined, but again, largely our freedoms are intact and we largely “act the same.”
I agree largely with what you say, but the media perspective portrayed abroad is not always reality.
Kiran Venkatesh
USA
While I clearly don’t think that reacting in US-mode is the way to go, do you really believe that saying things like ‘move along people’ is smart? It hasn’t even been half a day, and people are supposed to ‘move on’?
Fighting terror isn’t about stealing personal freedom (and I honestly hope that doesn’t happen). But ‘keep[ing] this behind’, as you put it, is hardly any wiser.
You talk passionately about educating people/police about leopard encounters; are a hundred odd innocent deaths worth no more than a ‘move on, people’? No more than a cheap ‘faulty TV sets’ throwaway line?
Think about it.
I’m sorry, but my “move along” is not meant to say that this is over, back to works kind of thing. I, very much am for fight on terror and by this I am trying to say that people much be strong and fight this the right way and not over react by emotions.
I, for one was very glad how India took the wave of attacks the last few months, and how the country and people were brave enough to keep in behind and move on with lives. What the terrorists want is to disturb our way of life (ofcourse am not counting the death toll that might come up during the actual event of the attack itself). When I hear lines like “Lets go after the muslims” or “I do not want to live in India anymore” , that is when I know we have lost the battle. So kindly do not misunderstand my “move along” statement.
Re: Reacting like the US
Oh I infact think NYC was very brave and 9/11. I fear the neo-conservatives and I think there are a big number of them in all forms of life in the USA. Infact I think most of the west and east cost has been very sensitive about the attacks and I do respect them for that.
Also the TV set info is because when someone said “I feel unsafe/scared to step out of the house now”.
Security is always a tradeoff; it must be balanced with the cost. We all do this intuitively. Few of us walk around wearing bulletproof vests. It’s not because they’re ineffective, it’s because for most of us, the tradeoff isn’t worth it. It’s not worth the cost, the inconvenience, or the loss of fashion sense
Just the way we do not stop using TV sets
Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
Not sure I understand your argument.
After 9/11 there has not been a SINGLE incident of terror attack in US soil where dozens of people have died.
Let us give credit where it is due – whatever fault US has, their law and intelligence forces have made sure no such incidents happen again on regular basis.
You’re treading dangerous territory by using the phrase ‘move along people’ here and doing some random comparison to faulty TV sets. I know you as a friend and what you mean to say, but I am done with moving along and talking about the ‘everlasting Mumbai spirit’ and shit like that.
I live in NYC and see the beauty in how everybody here has accepted that disaster. There is no moving along and yes, there are less freedoms – I face “random checks” in the subway everyday, day after day. But there is a sense of responsibility here – that if you do good, everybody benefits. Everybody tells me that before 9/11, there was no empathy in New York. Today, there is.
Moving on means a continuation of policies like a non-uniform civil code, appeasement of “minority” vote banks, and as the ultimate worst, a government that continues to place politics over humanity (why is Shivraj Patel home minister and not in court for gross negligence?)
This is not the time to move on. Enough moving on. It’s time to change as much as we can and hope that a generation of failed policies can be made redundant by a generation of policies that force responsibility for one’s decisions.
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
Errr.. why these anon comments ?
OK since you started it, here are some numbers for you :
People died in Sept 11 attacks : 2974
Number of US troops killed in Iraq : 4207 (This is in response to the sept 11 attacks)
Number of people died in Iraq : 1288426 (Thats right, its a million+)
I wont event bother with the numbers in afghanistan.
You are right.. there were no deaths since 9/11 in “US Soil”. They just moved it elsewhere.
As for India, we had a dozen terror attacks on “Indian Soil” this year, but our stock market did not tank, our “Consumer confidence” (as people in US call it) did not fall down, we did not invade any country neither have we killed a single person outside or inside our country because of the attacks.
Today’s attacks are the worst that India has ever seen and I am confident that we will come out strong.
Thanks.. My choice of words were not right but I’m glad you hit the nail on the head.
In our country, there is no value for lives – People or Wildlife. I hope people’s power after this is enough to change the way our gov looks at these issues.
Heh, actually people did move along 😉
I was at office at 7:00 am, so were most of the people here. When i see out of the window i see life as normal (barring the traffic, since the gov declared a day off for schools and colleges).
It should take more then a handful people with some weapons to bring this city to a stand still.
cheers,
–tazz
In Reply
First of all I agree with move along as well as be strong and do not over react. Moving along I feel does not just mean acceptance and resignation to what has happened but raising your voice and enforcing a change.
But tell me something Kalyan. You are asking the people to move along right? Yes that will definitely happen. Should’nt it be the political system that has to be jolted and woken up wide awake that something has happened? Will that really happen? Ever? 1993 riots, Last to last year’s train attacks, now this. Not to mention 500+ ppl dead since May (Blore, Hyd, Mumbai, Delhi etc.)
This time terrorists entered through the ship. The Gateway of India, Taj Hotel and other imp landmarks face the sea directly and are easy targets. This was known since a long time. Nothing done at all! Should’ nt WE ALL instead of ‘MOVING ALONG’ with the govt. actually ‘move’ it?
Sorry for the emphasis. Just pissed off I guess. Nevertheless, I agree with you.
Disappointed
I don’t agree with you at all. What good has come from staying course/moving along except an increase in attacks.?
We need politicians who recognizes this and acts accordingly instead of trying to appease the muslim vote bank. A convicted terrorist who was behind the parliamentary attack has been sentenced to death by the Supreme Court but he is yet to be hanged by the government because it doesn’t want to “hurt the muslim sentiments”.
If this is how we treat our convicted terrorists then there is no escaping them.
Our neighbours (bangladesh and pakistan) has repeatedly aided and sponsored terrorists. And what have we done against it? Other than CONDEMNING attacks. As if the terrorists care. Will mexicans dare launch terrorist attacks against US ?
I don’t want personal freedoms to be curtailed. But good security can be achieved without curtailing personal freedoms. So moving along is not the best option. Our best option is vote for politicians who will act swiftly and decisively when the country needs it and who will upgrade our security infrastructure. Army is not for policing (J&K) or for fighting terrorists. We need to have a national ATS along the lines of CBI.
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
They are fighting a war. Casualties are expected. The war in IRAQ was just for oil.
But the point remains that there has not been a single terrorist strike on US Soil after 9/11. Also it is not because they went to war that they are safe. It is despite that. If you mean by “moving along” that we should not go to war i’m inclined to agree with you but if it means doing nothing substantial then i completely disagree.
We have a lot to do and learn. Perhaps we can learn from Israel. Perhaps no other country has faced such constant terror attacks. But apart from the rocket attacks they have managed to bring down other forms of terrorist attacks to almost nil.
Israel is a small country and hence easier to police. But that does not mean we can’t learn something from them.
I understand what you want to say, but perhaps you should have chosen different words.
The people of India are strong…but the government is incredibly weak sometimes….
Feeling wretched today, as always,when I think of how little security we actually have….I know that “breach of security” in another context is your forte.
Pissed off
Hey Kalyan,I understand what you are trying to say..Its always very neutralising when our emotions are running wild to have a pragmatic approach like yours.I was really disturbed yesterday,with the though of ‘kill all the muslims’.But thats what the terrorist intent to do.The only solution is for the people to really move on and at the same time move on to force our dirty politicians to bring about federal instiutions with independent powers to tackle the menance.I am perplexed how come a politician never gets killed.
-JJ
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
Fighting terror is tough. How do you do it ? Do you have easy solutions ? Lot of the measures that are taken around the world are not true solutions, but things that make people happy.. or rather they think they are secure.. which is how most of the security work.. which is just deliver false sense of security.
When people over react, it gives a perfect platform for people push in their hidden agendas.
Re: In Reply
I agree with you totally and I am sure with this king of high-profile attack, out gov will wake up to it.. but how do you measure results ? A lot have to go with out international relations, kashmir issues etc. IF someone wants to blow up a building, nothing can stop him.. and if we ever live in a world where we can track people to that level, I do not want to live in that world.
Re: Disappointed
We vote our gov and it is in your hand really. Also what do you expect them to do ? If you are the new PM, what measures will you take to fight this ?
I said this earlier.. but deepa, if you were the PM, what do you do ? OK we setup an anti-terror cell and then what ? As you rightly pointed out, random checks in the mall are not the way to go.
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
Where do you draw the line between “reaction” and “over reaction” ? There are no easy solutions. There never will be. But that does not mean that all we can do is just “move along”.
mistaken impressions
Your use of the soap box at this moment to criticize the US falls into a very sad generalization. Frankly, it’s the same sort of thinking that deludes the terrorists into striking out at private citizens with a the vengeance held for governmental policies. In their bizarre, distorted hysteria they choose to see one and all as the same, you’ve just done something disturbingly similar. The ludicrous generalizations you present in this commentary are extremely offensive to people who survived the 911 attacks, suffered the consequences of PTSD and still objected to the choices of the US government. Sane people of all nations who would like to see the planet get along in peace are not helped when we minimize one another’s capacity as individuals to hold differing opinions from the government we are currently herded by. As a 911 New Yorker, I appreciate your piece and the work that went into it, but feel it is a gross distortion of the American people and a profound misunderstanding of the strenuous disgust and opposition most of us have held for the current administration.
Most people in Mumbai were probably at work by the time you posted this and were worried about your mall visits.
There’s been ENOUGH moving along.
That was me.
seriously dude…. firstly these TV channels just keep bullshitting instead of giving news. I like CNN and BBC to an extent. If something serious is happening, they cover for 15 mins and then move on. Then come back later with updates.
In India, they catch hold of emminent ppl and start off talk shows and the channels compete on who gets the more important personality on air. Whats so great about vijay mallya condemning the blasts anyway. The amount of terrorism affecting India didnt reduce because of his comments.
And lethargy and stupidity has filled our politicos and police. We need powerful ATS squads with state of art training and equipment to bring these creeps down. Instead we dialog and surrender more and more terrorists that we have already captured, who are anyway leading a luxurious life in jail.
Seriously pissed off with whats happening in India.
Reminds me…
…of something I read in some book long ago. “One man’s terrorist could be another’s patriot, but what these people are doing is reprehensible.” The entire community is now a subject of hatred, suspicion, and perhaps, even retaliation.
As for Barkha Dutt, she’s been barking up the wrong tree for so long, I’m surprised she’s still on the air. She’s perhaps one of the worst journalists this country has ever seen.
Vittal
When you say “move on”..I am reminded of the words that the protagonist in the movie “The Mighty Heart” says after her husband is killed brutally by the terrorists…”The intention of the terrorists is to terrorize us…I am not terrorized..neither should any of the others be”.
“Moving on” to me does not mean forget what happened yesterday and go on with your life…but it means realize the enormity of what has happened and put up a brave front and dont paralyse your life with fear….move on….
Unfortunately…do we have a choice other than moving on?…We cannot blame the politics and the system here….coz the fight here is against cowards who terrorize innocent people (Does anybody have a clue what these terrorists exactly want??)…they are incapable of coming out in the open and fighting..I am sure our Indian Army can put up a brave front against anybosy on a man to man fight…but here these cowards aim unarmed and unprotected people…
Can the Govt on a rampage to kill the terrorists like what US is doing in Afghanistan…unfortunately no…coz today terrorism has dug its roots deep into the country (in kerala…karnataka…mumbai..delhi..and who knows where else?)…we will have to kill half a thousand innocent people to find half a dozen terrorists…
So the option left with us is to “move on”….the way we interpret this is left to each one of us. I choose to not feel terrorized….
Meera
911?
“I guess this is being equated to Indian version of 9/11. “
I’m not sure it’s ever much use to compare pains, each has their own profound validity — but if you want to compare the disgraceful attacks in India to 911 please consider more of what you criticize. New Yorkers did not simply endure the spectacular horrors of the day, but smelled the crematorium inferno for over two solid weeks. We became prisoner to the active sight and smell of it all for weeks, inescapably entwined to the fate of our parents, siblings, relatives, friends, co-workers murdered on that day -literally thousands of people being cremated for days on end. This was no ordinary crematorium, it was a constant reminder of our helplessness. The attempt to minimize the lasting effects of PTSD to the sorry statistic you offer of Indian citizens being killed off by their own television sets seems as a troubling kind of arrogance.
So you are now an anti-terrorism “expert”?
Weird to see this rambling from you. After being “network security expert” is this your move to being “anti-terrorism” expert? Like those “special correspondents” of Daily Show LOL
Stick to monkeys dude..
Re: mistaken impressions
Couldn’t agree more
Kiran
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
But if you know how hidden agenda’s work in the name of TERROR OR SHOCK, you know what to look for , when to react , when not to react.
Look at ‘SHOCK DOCTRINE’ video’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka3Pb_StJn4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3mpRkaz8g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og2gYUVURAI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRvuGLM_Pe4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG_xRZW32X0&feature=related
THOSE WHO DOESN’T LEARN FROM HISTORY DOOMED TO REPEAT IT. NO EXCEPTIONS.
FUD
So true…….FUD should be out from now onwards!! just action….clinical, calculated, surgical…..done with a calm mind!!
Naveen Roy http://www.naveenroy.com
Significant Emotions
As you can see man, this has stirred some significant emotions. Furthermore, this ordeal is far from over. It’s 10:54pm in India right now and I’m watching and reading how this is far from over yet.
I’d agree with Deponti, I think you meant well with what you were saying, but I disagree with those choice of words and your characterization of the US. Furthermore, moving on, keeping “this behind” as far as addressing the problem got us into this problem, esp in the US. We long ignored the brewing storm and it landed on our shores 8 years ago. The same is true all over the world. There is no black and white in this new global atmosphere, as our inept outgoing President has repeatedly reiterated. There’s plenty of gray and it’s not straightforward.
I do enjoy this dialogue, interesting to see what people’s real thoughts are on this situation.
Kiran Venkatesh
USA
Re: So you are now an anti-terrorism “expert”?
That’s a bit too much. I don’t think he or anyone is attempting to act as an expert here.
Kiran
Sick of everything !
I think the fundamental problem in India is the lack of accountability. No single person in any Govt body can be held responsible for any action taken by them. Blame games, scoring brownie points, issuing redundant statements, having debates is what happens here.
Innocent people continue to die year after year and yet people who claim to run the govt can do nothing about it.
Being a PM or President in the worlds largest democracy doesn’t actually take too much, one just needs to be extremely corrupt and/or have a fancy surname and/or have a legacy of past crimes. As a democracy, we never vote for Individuals, its always about a political establishment and so the elected individual has absolutely no sense of responsibility or accountability.
Countless hours are wasted in the parliament over non issues and end up spending crores of our money in tea and biscuits. Where have all the policy makers gone? what was the last law that was framed/ reviewed for the genuine betterment of the country and its people.
We spend a lottt of money on defence but its sad that we are spineless. Can we afford to lose our brave soldiers just because the politicians were busy worrying about how much money can be made out of a particular defence procurement?
The terrorists can set up a control room, operate sat phones, enter via sea and actually disperse to their locations and people are caught napping. Our police force is hardly a force, we cant blame most of them for being so corrupt, they work in the most filthy environment,often having to suck up to politicians.
Intelligence reports often run from table to table tackling ego clashes between various agencies, state – central blame divides but no action has ever been taken actively.
We have always been reactive. Bangalore was bombed, for two days there were checkpoints placed from late night, which obviously vanished a couple of days later. Except for manning malls, which again has been the responsibility of the mall owners, no other checks have been put in place. Our city market continues to play lucky. Policemen spend more time in extracting money than conducting surveillance.
Yes, the reason why America is not been attacked after 9-11 is because people woke up, people demanded more accountability from its leaders. Yes, they played the FUD card but on American soil, no one has dared to breach.
Its sad to say that my country is still vulnerable, still a target for people to come and blow it up. They just have to decide when and where.
I am proud of our Defence forces, perhaps they should run the country for a while to clean up the entire system. I could sacrifice my freedom for my country.
Re: Disappointed
it is individuals who motivated others to bring the independence.
In this age of Internet , consistently exposing the truth will create a counter balance that is needed to the evil agenda players. This is how Iran war consistently spoiled for last 3 to 4 years. It is the motivated individuals who owns their brain used it to expose the lies , created enough energy which virtually forced the neocon’s to loose the elections. Of course No Change can come as all the elected officials in Washington are as corrupt as any politican in india. Safety or terror is not a one time act , this is on going as long as we breath.
Search on Kenneth Haywood , the controversial american intelligence guy whose computers were used to send the threat mail in all previous attacks. world Media’s notoriously absent about this story. The real players at the pentagon will come out .
Re: Sick of everything !
> Yes, the reason why America is not been attacked after 9-11 is because people woke up, people demanded more accountability from its leaders. Yes, they played the FUD card but on American soil, no one has dared to breach.
It is true people initially asked for truth, what they got was patriot act , which virtually removed their liberties , afghan, Iraq wars under the blanket of lies and terror threats , trillions of dollars of tax money went to war mongering multi national companies.
Accountability is there in US people , that is before 8 years. it all died during the last years. Don’t believe the multional media companies who use hypnotic sound bytes to demand people to prefer foreign govt. their own govt. Let us not forget the EAST india company yet.
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
The interesting question also would be “how many before 9/11”?
Great !!
Great views buddy, yeah why should we care about this. I am still alive and my dear one’s are safe. “Lets move on”, go back to work and make some dollars.
Who care about the innocent ppl who died. The officers the real hero’s who losed their lives, ppl who have put on uniforms to protect the citizens of this great country where its people thinks that we have to “move on…”
Vimal Kurup U
Re: mistaken impressions
No offense to the people who where there at 911, but what makes 911 so special again?
Heard of Darfur/Iraq/Somaia ? They have to worry about food than PTSD
I’ve been thinking along various lines through the day and at some point, I was thinking of what you say. I ended up with some rather weird conclusions.
The legal apparatus itself cannot become noticably worse. We live in a country where any person with “power” can abuse it enough and more to make witch hunts possible. Establishments of newer laws would not threaten people’s liberties in reality (though on paper it can). It will however contribute nicely towards the creation of a security theatre and help in breeding a few NGO groups.
And now that we are in the security theatre territory, we can talk of malls and hotels. Fact of the matter is that if someone is considered a likely target, a lot of people need to demonstrate due diligence to show that something is being done. So if bad things happen, they will look incompetent at worst and not ignorant of indifferent.
What will happen in terms of external (to the nation) activities appears to be the most interesting. Again, I have very little knowledge of those things to say anything remotely meaningful.
Re: Sick of everything !
There is no preference to a foreign govt but just a demand for more accountability from our govt, the one which we try to select. The problem is lack of leadership, Im not saying the ones in other countries are great, they could be worse but better at deception.
The fundamental problem here is zero responsibility, that’s what i was referring to. How many of us can remember the name of the MLA/MP/corporator we cast our vote to? How many of us have actually voted ?
The last man who brought the entire nation together was Gandhi and since then, people have just been bought.
Again, East India company became the British empire and made us slaves for 400 years simply because, Indians never came together or .. there was no individual capable enough to get the entire country together. It took a man centuries later to realize that.
We are a diverse bunch civilization, but we are not united.More often than not regional emotions take precendence over national issues.
In a country where majority of the population cannot read of write, no wonder lame duck mute spectators are elected, the politicians know only too well – so our education system is still in the dark age, health care for the poor is still a distant dream and national security is a myth.
These issues are exploited by a trivial powerful few to make the nation dance to their tunes.
Re: Significant Emotions
I know.. maybe my choice of words were tasteful, but I do mean what I said.
You already know how bad the administration and corruption in India is. Any anti-terror measures will be just a new vehicle for more votes or more money in the administration (as it has happened with US too post 911). I think its the people who make a country and its people’s strength that defines how we fight terror.. not gov policies. I am not a 911 New Yorker, but as someone pointed out, they do take a lot of pride in the way they have handled the situation after the event and how they had the strength to overcome the event. That is what I mean when people need to “Move on”.
But honest question to you : How do you think we should react to this ? what do you think we should do ?
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
What happens when US citizen steps out of the country : He becomes a sitting duck. Now do you realize why US and UK passport holders were rounded off first last night ?
Re: Not a single incident after 9/11 on US soil
Being a computer security guy, what you said hits the nail on the head i.e Safety and security is a process, not a one-time solution.
Re: Significant Emotions
There is very little we can do…
Our role in this entire thing is limited to casting our vote to the best of the worst …
For now, we can just not be scared and let them play FUD card … try to lead our lives as we ought to.
Its sad that in a country where more than half of the citizens are between 15 – 40… we are ruled by people who are fit to be in museums.
Re: mistaken impressions
hold on a second.. were not the US “Government policies” responsible for more than a million deaths in Iraq ?
Sorry dude.. I am with you on the 911 and the pain and the horror of it, but its also people like you who can be example to the rest of the world saying “You terrorists cannot ruin my freedom and my life”.
Very very well said Meera. WE need to win the battle, not the government or the police of our country.
Re: Significant Emotions
But we do not need to play into the FUD cards. If we are strong, and show that they cannot change our lives, we have won it. We should not be scared. Remember this : http://atulchitnis.net/diary/showentry/482
That is the way to win, not to wait for the gov to do anything about it. ( not that they can do anything in this situation)
Re: Great !!
So what do we do ? Cry a river ?
Every street in london is covered by a camera and no corner is untouched.. did that stop the attacks ?
Amen.