Missing building blocks
Sometimes I wish I had formal Computer Science background instead of Mechanical engineering. There are some things which you only learn in college course, which you’d never go out of your way to learn/master.
Maybe its not too late yet.
It’s never too late 🙂
I agree… fundamentals are important and they remain with you, as you rightly said, its never too late! just go grab few books over weekends.
There is nothing that I learnt in VTU that you don’t know far far better than I do. The IITs or perhaps undergraduation in a few US universities would have meant you learnt something new, but it definitely isn’t true in my case.
It isn’t kallu’s fault that VTU is a sh*thole … ;/
No, obviously. But if he’s talking about having done CS Engineering undergraduation, where the hell else would he have done it from? (Sorry Kallu but) He wouldn’t have got into an IIT + he would not have gone abroad for undergrad, which leaves only VTU as an option. And he wouldn’t have learnt anything there.
So his whole post is pointless.
So I belong to your league except that my UG was a “Computer Science” course which didnt teach me any thing new ! 😐
-nerdy
Well…
… some of the prescribed books are excellent. If you believe that VTU == sitting in the classroom and listening, then you’ve got it all wrong. Even studying a little bit from those books for exams gives you great knowledge. You wont get marks, but heck, you want to learn not “study” for the sake of an exam.
To be honest, you dont need IITs or Good US universities to learn CS. You’ll probably need them if you want to be in cutting-edge research. And as far as I can gather from Kallu’s post, he’s just talking about the basics, for which you do not need a college – you just need time to learn, and doing a CS course will buy you that time.
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That’s what I think too – I don’t think Kallu doing some “course” in CS would have made him learn something great, new and exciting. Basically, his regret about not having done a course in CS is in vain, IMHO.
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That’s what I used to think too … but working in a software company makes me think otherwise. 😐
There are some things which you only learn in college course, which you’d never go out of your way to learn/master.
Absolutely. I was forced to learn some things, which I would not have done otherwise. And now, those are the things which are keeping me sane. 😀
Me watching.
Im in a similar situation.Just that Im just a little younger.Im going to keenly watch what you will do.
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regret about not having done a course in CS is in vain
While I agree with the fact that the regret is in vain, I strongly believe that formal CS education, even to the extent VTU asks one to do, gives one an edge over other people jumping into the CS stream. I think my CS years taught me quite a few things which I would otherwise not have learnt.
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Yep I think there is an important thing of knowing what to learn . We all agree we haven’t learnt much under the VTU or sitting in a classroom and listening but as you said we knew what books were around .The books atleast by themselves covered our CS basics so ..bless those books and maybe Kallu just needs course material rather than the course.
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Kallu just needs course material rather than the course.
yep … and a little time to go through them, and he’s gonna be as good as any CS grad.
My solution: prepare for GATE.
start with discrete math .. some number theory and graphs …
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And someone to make him go through the ordeal.
I hated reading in college, so I’d get someone else to study out loud while I sat nearby and listened.
Its not about what you guys learnt.
I for one know programming languages , networks etc well.. beyond that nothing. I know jack shit about complexity, data structures, comp arch. compilers.. and these are something that are tough to learn on your own.
When you are doing a course.. you will learn about it.. or atleast know what its about.
Read the Classics
No need to go to college if you have the discipline to sit and read. Read the classics. Like The Art of Computer Programming, any computing book by Richard Stevens, Kernigham and Pike, Tannenbau…
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I still hate reading.. and am sure I will not read all the theory subjects ..esp with my life being so hectic.
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I have the richard stevens series and most of the other Unix/network books and I think I am pretty good at these.
I should give a crack at OS book (I’ll try the BSD book which is suppose to be good ) and Knuth’s books ( for which I need to do a crash course in math )
Easy to say.. but tough to learn 😉
Re: Read the Classics
Hmmm maybe u should read these if u really want to pick up some CS fundamantals
Algorithms and DS – Cormen
Theory of Computation (Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation ) – Ullman , a must for any one interested in doing Computer “Science”
OS – Galvin and Silberschatz
Graphics – VanDam Foley
Networx – Stevens
Compilers – Aho, Ullman, Sethi…
Dont even bother reading Knuth right now, most of is incomprehensible until u have a hang of cormen. And having good teachers def helps or at least get someone to study, because its very easy to get lost in the maze… 😀
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When you have a real need for it… it’s amazing how some of the most boring stuff become interesting reading!
We had a paper on networking in college… everyone hated it… and it didn’t help that the lecturer didn’t know what she was talking about … I rarely attended the class… and barely managed to clear the exam… two months later… I’m out of college and working… I was sitting up all night reading the same stuff that would put me to sleep in <30 minutes while in college!
Ditto for Data Structures… no one really understood why we were being forced to learn about linked lists and stuff… until I did a summer project… while trying to figure out how to deal with an IVR menu… and didn’t realise I was creating a linked list!
The problem with most of the theoretical stuff that we are taught in college/school is that no one bothers to tell you where you might actually apply it!
Personally I grab logical/practical stuff much faster than theoretical stuff… I remember being asked in junior college about the acceleration and velocity of a ball thrown vertically upwards… and i was the only one in class able to tell exactly what was happening at each stage… but I just couldn’t explain how/why!
frankly i don’t know jack shit about comp arch/compilers either..complexity i am still trying to learn..DS 90% of the situations you just use STL or perl hashes..who the heck cares what complexity it has….I just go read..and say aha..he sez a merge sort worst case is an O(n log n) DS..well I am happy..they don’t come anybetter..at least not without forknowledge of the data.
In fact most of STL implements a merge sort… so a sort<>..should be good enough..dude relax..it helps to have CS knowledge..but its not necessary..
Just try reading some of the stuff… you’ll probably realise that you are already using quite a bit of the stuff without actually knowing it!
Grad school
I’d like to say a few things given that I was at such a point in my life in the past.
I don’t have an undergrad degree in CS either (mine is in Chem Engg). Although I was convinced that there is a lot that I had managed to learn inspite of not doing a formal degree, I had come to learn (through exposure and talking to various seniors/faculty) that graduate school provided a completely different dimension to one’s learning experience. For somebody like me, it was the perfect way to learn all that I felt I had missed while also doing some really solid research.
I am happy to report that the 2 years that I spent in graduate school were simply fantastic. I did some very serious stuff – both in the classroom and the lab – and learnt immensely. Whether it was from fellow grad students, faculty or sitting in seminars. All in all, my experience of graduate school in the US was top-notch. I would bet that most people have had similar experiences although it does depend on how much you involve yourself with research. Sticking to doing just courses can take you only that far because a lot of the real learning experience IMHO comes from undertaking research.
I whole-heartedly recommend thinking about doing graduate school in the US. I don’t know much about graduate school in India although I hear it is pretty good at places like the IITs and IISc, so I can’t really comment. But I do know that one of the best things in the US is the university system and it is something indeed worth experiencing.
I don’t know if it’s possible for you to relocate to the US (you might have personal reasons) but one thing’s for sure – it’s never too late to study. Heck, sometimes I think I want to do a Ph.D now!
How old is Kallu?
Duh! in Kallu’s times VTU did not exist. Tells u how old he is 😉
And the then BU was so suckie in course con5tent compared to VTU, not much is lost
most wise and most sensible
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doing any course would buy that time
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lot of advice all around
just one nitpick – for which I need to do a crash course in math
the crux of the problem lies there. rigour does not come easy. and all that you say you missed comes with rigour and detail.
+++ mod parent down +++
Score: (-1) (troll)
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no, really, has anyone truthfully read completely (ok, let’s be generous and say “partly”) and understood:
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Granted – it taught you something you would not have learnt otherwise. But what did it teach you that you would not have learnt on the job, working as a software engineer?
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Crash course in math my ass. You need a godamn phd before you can grok anything beyond “Introduction” in TAOCP vol 1.
Re: +++ mod parent down +++
And while on that thread, has anybody ever finished an Ayn Rand novel?
If yes, are you serious?!
If yes again, did you do it in one attempt, without a break for a lighter novel?
Anyhow, I’m expecting to be mauled by after this comment…
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And I’ll oblige.
dpkg --purge all-dem-phuqqing-philistines-haunting-kallus-LJ
zimba-what?
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.. b-b-but you write like someone I know …. !
zimba-bao! what else? Cant you read? 😉
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How long have you been working ?
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Zero!
I assume you mean “nobody ever learns on the job”?
And why do you want to know these? Interest or do you feel it hampers your work?
If you want to get a an overview of things, you can always find relevant docs on the net (I think you can get an idea of all the data structures from wickipedia in a week or two). You don’t need a formal course for it. And if these topics play some(minor) role in your field of expertise, then whenever the need arises, you can learn the necessary stuff.
If you want to do extensive work in those areas, think about a PG.
The only advantage a CS course gave me was — I could devote all my time to CS and not bother abt anything else. And regarding the stuff I learnt — I could have done the same without taking a CS course, maybe it would have taken a bit longer.
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I second that!
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It’s like this: would you invent quicksort faster than you can read about it or vice versa?
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I have read and understood chapters of Feynman’s LiP, G,E&B. I could not get beond the first few pages of TAoCP. The trouble is I never fully read LiP and G,E&B. Didn’t have the patience because the prose was, lets be honest, not spellbinding.
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This thread is really worth bookmarking.
If you are planning to attend a grad school, beware of those Prereqs man, my friend(Non CS undergrad) he had to do 36 credit hrs of prereqs + the regular 33 hrs, it took him 3 yrs to get out of the school.
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No! you learn a LOT on the job… but it’s not the kind of stuff that you are taught in college. That is Kallu’s point!
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Yep.. exactly what I am talking about in this post 🙂
Re: Read the Classics
Same here. My TAOCP Vol 1 lies unopened beyond the first couple of pages. Maybe I could grok it in my old age 😉